Tuesday 4 September 2012

Say NO to drunken sex - and I'm talking to the guys!


I was going to call this "This blog could save a young man's life." but anyway...

I have always considered myself a reasonable man but I was amazed to find myself branded a rapist and rape apologist by feminists on Twitter after voicing my opinion on the Julian Assange and Ched Evans cases.  

In 2010, Baroness Stern, who wrote the report on rape that brought about the change to the rape law said, “Rape needs to be discussed a lot.”  However,  it may be difficult to discuss this subject when the questioning of these new laws is greeted with such hostile abuse.

Assange is already getting abuse with his image being tarnished forever and he is only wanted for questioning.  

I knew that discussing Assange and Ched Evans would result in abuse. I regret responding to it because I appreciate some of these women have been abused and probably still hurting.  I can also understand women feeling angry that they don't get justice and what compounds the pain is when there is a conviction, people want to get the rapist out.  

So let me make it clear. Rape is wrong and the rapist should go to prison. Women are never to blame for being raped.

I had a look at what the CPS says is rape.  It’s worth a read. I was unaware of the law changes over the years and this worries me.  Not for my sake but for those young men unaware of the new dangers. 

I watch the news, I see public information notices but this totally passed me by.  If I missed it I feel it is reasonable to assume a 24 year old footballer may have missed the law changes too.  Anyway, I’ll come back to that.

Here is the law but I doubt many young men have read this or discussed it with their parents, assuming they have functional parents.


Reasonable belief in consent

In the offences of rape, assault by penetration, sexual assault and causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent, a person (A) is guilty of an offence if (s)he:
  • ·      Acts intentionally;
  • ·      (B) does not consent to the act; and
  • ·      (A) does not reasonably believe that B consents.



The CPS goes on to say that (A) has to make a reasonable judgement call on (B)’s ability to consent.

The test of reasonable belief is a subjective test with an objective element. The best way of dealing with this issue is to ask two questions:

(i) Did the defendant believe the complainant consented?  This relates to his or her personal capacity to evaluate consent (the subjective element of the test).

(ii) If so, did the defendant reasonably believe it? It will be for the jury to decide if his or her belief was reasonable (the objective element).

The law has changed over the years.  What was acceptable in 2002 was not acceptable in 2003 and what was acceptable in 2009 was not acceptable in 2010. 

If Ched Evans had sex with this girl just 18 months earlier the judge would have advised the jury to come back with a NOT GUILTY verdict.  

Case of Peter Bacon cleared of rape in 2009.

“Thank God I'm free, says chef cleared of raping woman who was too drunk to remember. But my name has been dragged through the mud.” READ MORE




But the move to change the law started much earlier. 

When Judge Evans in 2005 said, “Drunken consent is still consent.” Labour MP Vera Baird, responded with "The judge is utterly and totally wrong, he needs to be spoken to and sent on some re-training. This is a dreadful outcome because women will now think they cannot have a single glass of wine - I think this is going to put women off coming forward again and again."  What? 
After the case, a CPS spokesman said: "It was the prosecution case throughout that consent was not given. Under cross-examination I think she accepted that she could not remember refusing and it could not then be said there was no reasonable doubt.”

In October 2006 The Guardian wrote

“The government is drawing up laws to make it easier to convict men of rape if they have sex with a woman who has drunk so much that she may not know what she is doing.”

 "Easier to convict men"? That's not making it easier to catch a rapist, that is redefining the crime. That is a change to the definition of rape.  I expected to see something in this piece on this change in the law of consensual sex.  Considering that it could result in a man going to prison for 5 years. Sorry Ched, you should have read the new CPS guidelines! 

 The article doesn’t even touch upon the third part of the definition of rape  “(A) does not reasonably believe that B consents.” 

Full article

Do men have a reasonable understanding of the new law?

I’ve looked for public information films that encourage men to decline the advances of a drunk woman but all I can find are examples of the traditional view of rape.  How can we expect men to understand "reasonable belief" and drunken consent if we don’t educate them on the new law?


12 months before the Ched Evans incident and it doesn’t come close to addressing the complexities of drunken consent and the importance of reasonable belief of consent. When men have had "NO MEANS NO!" drilled into them are you surprised a guy thinks "yes!" is ok? 

This is a classic date-rape perception in 2007 CLICK HERE

There is little evidence that young men have been made aware of the change in law that when a woman says “yes” it is HIS responsibility to judge that she understands what is going on. Even then if he believes it was ok a court may decide otherwise. That is an impossible situation for a young man to find himself in. 

A Judge can get it terribly wrong saying “Drunk sex is still consent” but yet we must believe that 12 months after a change in the law that a 22 year old man with no legal expertise was aware of the rapidly changing political mood of the nation's law makers. 

Remember, rape is only rape if (A) believes he hasn’t got consent i.e. He is aware he is committing a crime.
Ironically, during the period where the Labour Government wanted to increase rape convictions they have also relaxed the licencing laws on late night drinking.

This article in the UK's most popular newspaper, The Sun, suggests that Tulisa would not have consented to a sex act recorded by her then boyfriend if she had been sober. 

Tulisa from X Factor claims she was too drunk to remember making a sex tape.

“I believe I must have been intoxicated at the time the video footage was taken.
“Now that I can see the video, I can see it is me in it.”


This article written in 2012 is about being drunk and not being capable of consenting and it doesn’t even make any reference to a possible rape case.  If a role model like Tulisa gives drunken blow jobs what message does that send out?  What is a man's reasonable belief of drunken sex?  Drunk women give blow jobs? Well not anymore mate. That's FIVE years for you! You think I'm joking?  Ask Ched Evans how funny that is.

A man could possibly have endless encounters with drunk girls who don’t claim rape but then comes across one that takes offence to a sex tape on the net.  The only thing a man can reasonably do is avoid drunken encounters. Are they? Of course not. Young, drunk and stupid men will be persuaded by the pull of pissed sirens. Many will escape but the odd one will pay the price of his lust. "But she said 'yes'! he cries to his mum as they cart him away.  Clunk!

Now the thing is,  I’ve seen the tape and she didn’t appear drunk and that opens up the question, what if Tulisa was lying because she was just too embarrassed? 

She goes on to say “I must have been very drunk to let my then boyfriend Justin Edwards, who I also know features in the video, take the footage.”

Justin Edwards claims in a letter to his solicitors that ‘I took many pictures and videos of us having sex’ and I still have those videos. That is completely untrue.” 

Is Tulisa lying about being too drunk to remember?  That opens a whole new tin of worms that must never be opened. 

Men have a perception of sex and women that needs to be dispelled but locking up young men who are products of the drink/sex culture without educating them is totally dismissing the "reasonable belief" part of the definition of rape.

Brendan O'Neill sums it up perfectly.












“Feminists always focus on the state of mind of the woman or women involved in an alleged rape and disregard the state of mind of the man.
This is a terrible error, because in order for rape to have occurred, it is not enough to prove that the woman did not consent; we must also surely prove that the man knows she did not consent, or was utterly reckless as to the question of her consent, and carried on regardless.

Feminists who are subtly rewriting the meaning of rape are taking us away from this civilised approach and towards something more backward, even feudalistic: the criminal punishment of people who do not have criminal minds."

For me, the thought that men (any man over 16) are now totally responsible for the welfare of drunk women who offer up sex is concerning. 

Until this "drunken consent" topic is addressed properly so that men are properly educated, they need to change there approach to drunk women who are potentially hazardous.  

Gary Lee-Walters wrote this great article taken from The Barrister Magazine that looked at the whole problem in detail. 






“The public and parliament need to move with the times, tempora mutantur nos et mutamur in illis. No doubt improved sociological education of what might happen if men have sex with women that are intoxicated, especially those that do not overtly consent. A simple caveat to any man considering in engaging in intercourse with an intoxicated woman is simply not to do so. The law has and will continue to have difficulties dealing with such issues but unless a contract is drawn up for the two parties before a night out, these problems will re-present themselves.
In trying to make more sense of the law on voluntarily intoxicated consent, Alan Reed encapsulates the feeling well: “Arguably the true meaning remains as opaque as ever.” need for reform, the author asserts, is stronger now post-Bree and the SOA 2003, than ever before.”


Thanks for reading.




P.S. I haven't even started on our drink culture,  but this video is good place to get you thinking...




Excuse mistakes - I make loads. will probably make some amendments.


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